One last thought about "The Trouble" from wiscon

[maevele]

I was thinking about how the SASSholes are taking pics off the Flickr pools of perfectly unremarkable looking people just having a good time to go "hurr-hurr, FAT! Lesbian! UGLY! Hurrhurr" over, and think I've figured out what is so ugly in those pictures to them.

We're all having a good time. I can't imagine anything uglier to someone filled with hate and self loathing than normal people having the nerve to openly enjoy themselves.

Comments

[badgerbag.livejournal.com]

That is it in one sense, but here's another way to see it. It's their norm that all offensive insults are fair game and that anyone worthy takes those insults a certain way. It is that way in any trash talking group. They train each other to take it and let it roll off. Anyone who can't take it, that person gets laughed at. You don't even have to "mean" the insults. It doesn't matter what they are, just that the person be taught to be inured to what other people would find intolerable or painful. Complaining or showing that it affects you invites escalation. Abuse (verbal in this case, but in others physical) is training, to help you grow up. In fact, how to be a man.

Our cultural norm is a lot different and completely denies that model. Ours is that we spend a lot of time trying to achieve intersubjectivity and feel the pain other people feel so we can avoid hurting them. Showing how something affected you is part of witnessing or testimony or coming out or subjectivity, personal stories, speaking from personal as political. And in our norm laughing at someone is grounds for ostracism or exile or some other escalating intervention.

So yeah, nuclear meltdown culture clash. Racism and misogyny and any way of othering people are its tools. Or, you can see that culture as the tool to perpetuate & enforce racism and misogyny. If you look at how torturers are trained you will see it is the same.

[leeoakfire.livejournal.com]

That is so incredibly insightful! You put into words something I have been struggling with for some time now, in a personal relationship ... far past this conflict. I thank you and honor you.

[sparkymonster.livejournal.com]

Our cultural norm is a lot different and completely denies that model. Ours is that we spend a lot of time trying to achieve intersubjectivity and feel the pain other people feel so we can avoid hurting them. .

Ooh yes. This is really on point and part of the huge clusterfuckedness. Our community beliefs, standards and language are diametrically opposed and thus BOOM.

[maevele.livejournal.com]

That's a damn good point, as well. I've been off the parts of the net where that's the norm for a long time, it seems.

[bcholmes.livejournal.com]

Nicely said.