One last thought about "The Trouble" from wiscon

[maevele]

I was thinking about how the SASSholes are taking pics off the Flickr pools of perfectly unremarkable looking people just having a good time to go "hurr-hurr, FAT! Lesbian! UGLY! Hurrhurr" over, and think I've figured out what is so ugly in those pictures to them.

We're all having a good time. I can't imagine anything uglier to someone filled with hate and self loathing than normal people having the nerve to openly enjoy themselves.

Comments

[littlebutfierce]

I can't imagine anything uglier to someone filled with hate and self loathing than normal people having the nerve to openly enjoy themselves.

Yeah, definitely. Although I think especially people who are seen as "abnormal"--basically all the groups of people that Rachel Moss attacked in her original post & that everyone else is running w/(& adding to). How dare we freaks go out in public & have fun!

[maevele.livejournal.com]

yeah, by normal I meant people who don't look like TV people, normal as in real, i guess I meant.

[cuddlyjane.livejournal.com]

Wow, they responded to you already.
Johnny JJ
SASS Dynamics
"I don't harass the elephants at the zoo for playing with the giant rubber ball; theory destroyed"

[cuddlyjane.livejournal.com]

SASS has never denied that they're having fun making fun of fatties. They're doing it for the lulz and if it's ok to be proud of your body, why do you care what a bunch of people on the internet think?

It's insecure and "Fat Pride" means ignoring the haters, right?

[maevele.livejournal.com]

Aw hell, I don't care as such, in the sense of personal butthurtedness, there had just been some discussion elsenet about why they were bothering to post and mock the pretty much average party pics. The ones without fat people or transpeople, or any other easy targets. And that was the simplest explanation. People were unashamedly having a good ass time.

[sparkymonster.livejournal.com]

Ignoring the haters is definitely important. I think, however, it's emotionally draining to have someone going "NYAH NYAH NYAH" and poking you. Even when you know they're wrong, and their opinion doesn't matter. Having them there and dealing with their litter is tiring.

My personal reaction is to stop looking at them. I saw my photo was swiped. I'm sure I've been mocked. I don't need to look at it.

For me, I'm not really upset that they're mocking me. Whatever, that happens every day. I'm pissed that they've caused damage to a community I find important, and that they're continuing to try to hurt and damage it.

[badgerbag.livejournal.com]

That is it in one sense, but here's another way to see it. It's their norm that all offensive insults are fair game and that anyone worthy takes those insults a certain way. It is that way in any trash talking group. They train each other to take it and let it roll off. Anyone who can't take it, that person gets laughed at. You don't even have to "mean" the insults. It doesn't matter what they are, just that the person be taught to be inured to what other people would find intolerable or painful. Complaining or showing that it affects you invites escalation. Abuse (verbal in this case, but in others physical) is training, to help you grow up. In fact, how to be a man.

Our cultural norm is a lot different and completely denies that model. Ours is that we spend a lot of time trying to achieve intersubjectivity and feel the pain other people feel so we can avoid hurting them. Showing how something affected you is part of witnessing or testimony or coming out or subjectivity, personal stories, speaking from personal as political. And in our norm laughing at someone is grounds for ostracism or exile or some other escalating intervention.

So yeah, nuclear meltdown culture clash. Racism and misogyny and any way of othering people are its tools. Or, you can see that culture as the tool to perpetuate & enforce racism and misogyny. If you look at how torturers are trained you will see it is the same.

[leeoakfire.livejournal.com]

That is so incredibly insightful! You put into words something I have been struggling with for some time now, in a personal relationship ... far past this conflict. I thank you and honor you.

[sparkymonster.livejournal.com]

Our cultural norm is a lot different and completely denies that model. Ours is that we spend a lot of time trying to achieve intersubjectivity and feel the pain other people feel so we can avoid hurting them. .

Ooh yes. This is really on point and part of the huge clusterfuckedness. Our community beliefs, standards and language are diametrically opposed and thus BOOM.

[maevele.livejournal.com]

That's a damn good point, as well. I've been off the parts of the net where that's the norm for a long time, it seems.

[bcholmes.livejournal.com]

Nicely said.

[(Anonymous)]

No, that isn't true. You're being mocked because you're a bunch of walking cliches who are also vicious miserable hags as well as being physically repulsive. There is no self loathing in play here, its that you are loathful.

[maevele.livejournal.com]

right...because they wouldn't just find someone else to mock if wiscon didn't exist.

[yeloson.livejournal.com]

Says the anonymous adonis who must sit at the other side of the screen. I'm sure you are the specimen of beauty yourself, at least as long as your penis pump is working.

fail

[bifemmefatale.livejournal.com]

In what way were any of the WisConners vicious? Seems all the viciousness came from you and your ilk. And nope, we weren't miserable either. Did you notice all those smiling faces? And we're still not miserable despite your best efforts to make us so.

[badgerbag.livejournal.com]

that's "rolling cliche" to you!

Pardon my French, but...

[azzy23.livejournal.com]

FUCK those people. Just fuck them. I'm so damned tired of that type.

No, it's not that you all didn't meet their thin little margin of acceptable physicality, it's that you didn't meet it, and weren't MISERABLE ALL THE TIME.

How DARE you not be what I tell you to be, and NOT be miserable??

I just want to walk my wobbly fat ass right up to them and knock them silly.