worked up the strength to try to read the post by elizabeth moon everyone is talking about, and I feel sick. I'm horrified that this is coming from one of next wiscon's guests of honor. I honestly could puke.
BTW, WS in that thread was actually, stunningly, not on Elizabeth Moon's side, but engaging persistently with m*nt**th, who *was* being an ass. WS's doggedness was actually, for once, not about cl*ss. Shocking but true.
Yeah, it's pretty.....I don't even know what the word for it is.
My boyfriend just discovered Elizabeth Moon, and we had agreed that I will not tell him what was in the post until he's finished reading stuff he wants to read. Given that I still can't touch Elizabeth Bear's books, I feel like it's an okay choice. Although maybe it'll make it even worse when he knows.
Well, I was grouping all the subrages under the heading of my primary reactions, in the interests of efficiency. It's more of a rage outline, if you will.
Sadly, I am now creating a rage outline in my head, with roman numerals and bullet points and everything.
Many Mexicans, on the other hand, and later, Central Americans, retained a strong connection to their former homes, visiting back and forth with relatives there. Thus it was possible for them to stay connected in a way that overseas immigrants rarely did, and difficult to commit fully to their new home. We all do what's easy, if we don't think about it...we stay with the familiar. But if a diverse community is to be a community, and not a geographically bounded group of competing cliques, we all have to think about it.
SPEAK ENGLISH, YOU ARE MAKING ME UNCOMFORTABLEDAMAGING THE MORAL FABRIC OF OUR SOCIETY.
I don't think wiscon has a policy for what to do when your guest of honor acts like an asshole in this way. I don't think such a policy has ever been needed. We can't look to other local cons, since My other local con is Madcon, and they apparently book assholes on purpose, since their GoH is harlan.
Do they need a policy? Like, is it not common sense to say, "Oh, hey, it turns out that this person doesn't share our values and if we honor her we will make a lot of people feel unsafe"?
Guess who first said in print about "don't speak your own language, you're ruining America" and about whom?
Ben Franklin.
About the GermansPalatine boors (http://bc.barnard.columbia.edu/~lgordis/earlyAC/documents/observations.html).
Also, the "visiting relatives who live in your country of origin is un-American" business is really o_O to me as the granddaughter of a proud Canadian immigrant to the US. I guess it's OK if you're a native speaker of English?
Since I'm not going to write a thesis on the myriad horrible things Ben Franklin says there, I'm going to question his statement that the Swedes are swarthy.
Holy shit, what a pile of.... I don't even know. What the hell, Moon?
A friend of mine in her 40s has this generational theory of internet usage - that it just isn't integrated into her life enough for it to ever occur to her to look up writers she likes on the internet. I kind of envy her that right now.
ETA: OF COURSE Will Shetterly is in the comments. OF COURSE.
Yes, but the comments I saw by him are generally spot on; I may have missed some of them because I was trying to avoid that other larger asshole spouting right wing talking points and asserting that if you want to fight for women's rights you should set up a clinic in Saudi Arabia....
But if Will Shetterly is calling you out on your assholery and bigotry and he's got the better of you, what the fucking fuck.
And to point out that they do the kind of shit she's advocating in Europe, and call it progressive too, but no one is fucking fooled by it; scratch the surface and it's still bigotry.
I can't deal with that guy going on in the Shetterly thread about how you can't use West Africa as an example and how Nigerians are dumb. I am not a person who trolls! I don't know what has come over me.
He's not a canary in the mineshaft! He's like a mole in a mineshaft! WHEN YOUR MOLE HAS GIVEN UP THE GHOST AND IS ALL "ACK...AIR PLEASE!" YOU HAVE PROBLEMS.
Oh, and her ranting about the insensitivity of Muslims who want to build community centers managed to distract me from her implication that taking Native children away from their families and putting them in white schools where they were punished for speaking their own languages or observing their own traditions was a really great thing that improved our society.
I think that starting over the weekend when I have a little time PRHM's journal is going to be covering the First Amendment, but not the speech clauses, the religion clauses. Because what the fucking fuck, people, what the fucking fuck.
And so she tried to "clarify" in the comments that she meant that it's bad citizenship for the muslims to want a community center so close to ground zero because it gives ammunition to the right wing enemies that will therefore cause violence? How is that different than "CAVE TO THE BULLIES" and where does that stop??? Why do they have to cave? Because the bullies are in power and she likes things peaceful?????
Because the bullies are in power and she likes things peaceful?????
Ding ding ding, show the lady what she's won.
It's also the old moderate idea that everyone's feelings deserve equal consideration, so we have to "compromise," and that will be hard for everyone, but gosh, that's what's fair!
How do people who are NOT Glenn Beck watch Glenn Beck and think "Normal person. I'm with him." Because, I mean, don't they *see* him and hear him and think...hmmmm....
But turns out Jesus actually has an LJ filter where he posts all the stuff he doesn't want Glenn to see, because Glenn's kind of a douche and likes to gossip about people's personal business.
I started off reading it like "Bigotry is inevitable, so if you're smart, you'll take that into account," which annoys me but doesn't really make the steam come out of my ears, and then she said "some Muslims are civilized" and I was like OH I SEE.
Maevele, would you let me put a link to this post in my fight_derailing post, as a place to discuss the Moon GOH/walkout stuff? Or should we start a public post at wiscon?
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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it's fucking disgusting.
summary
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(& yeah, I hope to be there!)
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BTW, WS in that thread was actually, stunningly, not on Elizabeth Moon's side, but engaging persistently with m*nt**th, who *was* being an ass. WS's doggedness was actually, for once, not about cl*ss. Shocking but true.
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My boyfriend just discovered Elizabeth Moon, and we had agreed that I will not tell him what was in the post until he's finished reading stuff he wants to read.
Given that I still can't touch Elizabeth Bear's books, I feel like it's an okay choice. Although maybe it'll make it even worse when he knows.
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What a miasma of disappointment.
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Holy what.
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Many comments. You need to get rather far down before he weighs in.
Love, C.
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I always confuse Elizabeth Moon with Elizabeth Hand, tbh. Which means I don't even really think I know who Elizabeth Moon is.
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I need coffee.
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Hmmm, ok, rightful anger towards the rich who try to martyr themselves.
"Misuse of resources," where are you going with this, please don't try to make this into welfare wank...
"I'm starting to get a little bit nervous now...
"Immigrants who refuse to assimilate are damaging the fabric of the nation? Say what now?
"NO DO NOT GO THERE WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABORT ABORT.
"I hate you. I hate you so much."
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Sadly, I am now creating a rage outline in my head, with roman numerals and bullet points and everything.
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And then some of the fucking COMMENTS.
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SPEAK ENGLISH, YOU ARE
MAKING ME UNCOMFORTABLEDAMAGING THE MORAL FABRIC OF OUR SOCIETY.no subject
*head continues to explode*
Surely all the Americans who speak Polish and Chinese and Italian and WHATEVER THE HELL are doing something completely different.
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Ben Franklin.
About the
GermansPalatine boors (http://bc.barnard.columbia.edu/~lgordis/earlyAC/documents/observations.html).Also, the "visiting relatives who live in your country of origin is un-American" business is really o_O to me as the granddaughter of a proud Canadian immigrant to the US. I guess it's OK if you're a native speaker of English?
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A friend of mine in her 40s has this generational theory of internet usage - that it just isn't integrated into her life enough for it to ever occur to her to look up writers she likes on the internet. I kind of envy her that right now.
ETA: OF COURSE Will Shetterly is in the comments. OF COURSE.
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But if Will Shetterly is calling you out on your assholery and bigotry and he's got the better of you, what the fucking fuck.
It's like I'm in some other universe.
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And, yeah, this is... this is like Orin Hatch defending the religious freedom of Muslims. It's like we live in crazy opposite world.
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And to point out that they do the kind of shit she's advocating in Europe, and call it progressive too, but no one is fucking fooled by it; scratch the surface and it's still bigotry.
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I think that starting over the weekend when I have a little time PRHM's journal is going to be covering the First Amendment, but not the speech clauses, the religion clauses. Because what the fucking fuck, people, what the fucking fuck.
And so she tried to "clarify" in the comments that she meant that it's bad citizenship for the muslims to want a community center so close to ground zero because it gives ammunition to the right wing enemies that will therefore cause violence? How is that different than "CAVE TO THE BULLIES" and where does that stop??? Why do they have to cave? Because the bullies are in power and she likes things peaceful?????
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Ding ding ding, show the lady what she's won.
It's also the old moderate idea that everyone's feelings deserve equal consideration, so we have to "compromise," and that will be hard for everyone, but gosh, that's what's fair!
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...how does this make any sense to people who are not Glenn Beck?
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How do people who are NOT Glenn Beck watch Glenn Beck and think "Normal person. I'm with him." Because, I mean, don't they *see* him and hear him and think...hmmmm....
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I hope Wiscon takes this seriously.
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