greer

[maevele]

jesus christing fuckinghell. just read Germaine Greer's guardian piece that people have been pissed about, and she can eat shit.

big fucking piles of stinky offal.


fuck her.

I'm neither quoting or linking, because it made me sick to my stomach and I don't want to pass that on.

Comments

[oursin]

She has a truly terribly record in that respect, if it's the comment I read yesterday.

[al_zorra]

She isn't writing coherently these days.

But then, I never thought she was any good at thinking, analysis or anything other than how to stay on top of any wave that was going. Her knowledge of history was never her strong point either.

Love, C.

[badgerbag]

"Big, blokish and bloody fast" Arrrrgh. Have to say, I want to smack
Greer... not for the first time.

Here is a much better link to cheer you.

http://www.blacklooks.org/2009/08/gender_terrorism_we_are_all_sara_baartman.html

[lady-alyria.livejournal.com]

Googled it. Wow, that was pretty bad.

[rhipowered.livejournal.com]

Massively sick shit. I didn't read it, just the F Word and RH commentaries, and that was enough.

[trinityva.livejournal.com]

Oh no no no no no.

DX

[shweta-narayan.livejournal.com]

UGH.

Also, WTF. Why is this person still writing professionally, if she's stopped being able to think?

[voz-latina.livejournal.com]

because, feminism has a long history of valorizing hatred of trans women, and Greer in particular.

Feminism and hatred of trans women were joined at the hip for 40 years and counting.

[shweta-narayan.livejournal.com]

Transphobia in general is pernicious, I know, but... are they still joined at the hip? Or is it just zombie remnants like her?

(Another post I found of hers while looking for this one for context: "Women just aren't funny! That's why there aren't many well known female comics." The stupid, it burns.)

[voz-latina.livejournal.com]

at this point, its joined at the hip.

the dying body still has some kick tho..but, most feminists deny the history, and therefore give it power.

This is the same mentality that lets feminists give haters a voice and power in feminist circles. Which is why Greer can write in the Guardian, and a trans woman can't.

Hate sells, and the feminists keep buying, ignoring, and making excuses.

Like you just tried to do here minimizing it.

[shweta-narayan.livejournal.com]

at this point, its joined at the hip.
That's pretty terrible.

Like you just tried to do here minimizing it.
Um, I'm sorry if I communicated that; it wasn't intentional at all. I'm trying to understand something I have very little knowledge of; I'm badly out of touch with the accepted feminist-circles because of their silencing of women of color.

I'm appalled at Greer, and the fact she still has a voice, and trying to understand the extent to which that voice is representative and who it's representative of. Is it out of place to ask how I managed to communicate minimizing?

[voz-latina.livejournal.com]

I understand. I thought you wanted an honest answer, not a pleasant one.

Well, minimizing like you did (and quickly recovered form) happened when you expressed doubt.

Really? It can't be THAT BAD. is so pervasive, its easy to read your commentary as such.

It is a common enough trope in feminism and your words and tone looked exactly like it. They came off as a demand to prove my oppression, because that's exactly what they were.
When someone does that, it is clear that they are using a privileged position to doubt a non privileged view.

Think a man wandering into a discussion among women of sexism and going "is it really still that bad? You guize have Title 9 now!" It's the same tone, and the same thing.

Prove your experience of oppression, cuz I don't believe it.

and that gets old, fast.

[shweta-narayan.livejournal.com]

Ah. I see.
I was trying to ask "I understand from what you said that it was this bad historically; does it continue to be this bad," but the way I said it was minimizing, because it wasn't distinguishable from "It's not actually so bad, is it?".

I'm very sorry for that. It wasn't what I meant; I am aware it *can* be this bad, and that's actually why I was asking.

[voz-latina.livejournal.com]

I understand. It's OK

[shweta-narayan.livejournal.com]

And yes, I wanted an honest answer, and very much appreciate you giving me one; I just didn't quite see what I was doing wrong because what I ended up communicating was so far from what I meant to communicate.

[voz-latina.livejournal.com]

I agree with you about the fail, but, people excuse or minimize it because she is still useful for other ppl not directly impacted by her hate. That's why feminist haters of trans women still get such airtime in the world and feminist circles.

[shweta-narayan.livejournal.com]

Ah, I see.
It seems pretty clearly inexcusable to me, and I'm not trying to minimize it, but to understand the background context.

From the search I did, it didn't seem like Greer had many supporters, though obviously I might be missing them because of the search terms I used. But even if that's right, there are situations where a sole and unpopular voice is still heard only because of historical reasons, and situations where people brush an older voice off as "no longer relevant" but actually there is an underlying culture of quieter bigotry that allows that voice to matter. I was trying (badly, I understand now, and I'm sorry for that) to ask which of the two was the situation here -- not in order to minimize the damage she does, but in order to better understand the situation (ironically, so that I *didn't* add to it with my ignorance).

[voz-latina.livejournal.com]

yeahs, pretty much. Feminists are improving on the Overt transmisogyny, but the covert stuff is still in full force.

Look at how badly white feminism has handled race, and how long they have had to address it.

After a century, racism is still almost as bad as ever in feminism, even if the nice white ladieeez don't say the N word to your face (usually).

[shweta-narayan.livejournal.com]

Yes, absolutely, and I assume transphobia is even worse.

I was attempting to ask how much worse, partly in order to understand whether it'd be possible to *remove* her as a voice, as it would have been if she had said anything near this bad about women of color.

If it's *so* much worse that she can get away with this, then I guess the next question is whether there's anything I could do to help change the culture, given non-insider status and limited resources?

3 simple rules for fighting for trans women s rights

[voz-latina.livejournal.com]

1) I assume you are a cis woman. Use your voice as a cis woman to speak for us where we cannot speak for ourselves

2) Call out transmisogyny and exclusion when you see it and it is safe to do so.

3) Don't get run over.

That third one's a bitch especially when doing 1 and or 2. Check your six when doing them...you'll be glad you did.

Re: 3 simple rules for fighting for trans women s rights

[shweta-narayan.livejournal.com]

Yes, I am a cis woman. Obviously not one who can always communicate what she intends to; I'm definitely working on that, and very sorry for any hurt I added by failing here, earlier.

I do, generally, speak out where I am able. Are there resources you'd recommend to understand the differences between speaking out against transphobia and speaking out against racism/sexism/hompphobia/ableism (where I have more experience)?

Re: 3 simple rules for fighting for trans women s rights

[voz-latina.livejournal.com]

Yes.

Join and post to debunkingcis. Tell em I recommended you.

A lot of the rules are the same...just review your anti oppression stuff that you mentioned, and visit Questioning Transphobia. Read, and look at the links, and go from there.

Re: 3 simple rules for fighting for trans women s rights

[shweta-narayan.livejournal.com]

Thank you! Doing so now.

[shweta-narayan.livejournal.com]

ACK. I just realized I said that really badly too. I meant, if Greer's lashing out at Semenya had been about her being a woman of color.

[voz-latina.livejournal.com]

ohh yes. The feminist fail is truly without bounds.

My rule is, when confronting a cis or white feminist:

"terminate with extreme prejudice."

[shweta-narayan.livejournal.com]

I'd like to consider myself a feminist of the "Thinks women are human" variety, but I don't like using the word because of all the forms of unquestioned privilege wrapped up in the movement(s), none of which I want to align with or condone.

[voz-latina.livejournal.com]

precisely.

Of course, its the practice and not just the thinking that does it.

Bring a towel, and a pot of coffee. You'll need both.

[shweta-narayan.livejournal.com]

I am somewhat too prone to paralysis when I'm ignorant, but the fact is I'm always going to be ignorant, so am now trying to go on the understanding that it shouldn't stop me trying to a) become less ignorant and b) doing what I can anyway.

[upstart-crow.livejournal.com]

I looked up the article, and wasn't sure what she was talking about (I don't follow sport). So I googled Caster Semenya.

I think I've out-cussed my cussing quotient this week, so: Greer has a lot of nerve, and so does everyone policing Semenya's body.

[pharaoh-katt.livejournal.com]

Greer... *shudders* What she wrote is inexcusable. It's been so long since I've seen anything of hers, I was hoping she would fade into obscurity. Obviously I just wasn't looking hard enough.

Ms Greer: fade already! We don't need any more of your transphobic bullshit!